Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (357:33).
ic posted to soc.genealogy.medieval
on 4 Dec 1996:
Subject: Re: How many Hugh's of Maine ?
"> What I'm not sure of is how many intervening HUGHs were counts ofMaine in between ROGER and HERBERT. In RFC (line 357), Stuart showsthree.
I have not seen RFC, fortunately so, perhaps, as it seems to cause somuch confusion. ES III, 692 has:
Roger - Hugo I 900-14 - Hugo II 931-76 - Hugo III 991-1014/15 -
Herbert 1014-36 - Hugo IV 1036-51. Maine was conquered by Geoffrey Martelof Anjou (d.1060), fought over by William the Conqueror etc. Hugo V1070-92, nephew of Hugo IV may have been only titular count, I'm notsure.
Werner (die Nachkommen, KdG IV, ..) has the same numbering but differentdates:
Hugo I 900-39/55 - Hugo II 939/55-ante 92 - Hugo III 992-1014/15.
I always thought the 11th century counts were well established: theproblem lies in their origins, which you have discovered, and thedivision of the various Count Hugo's in the 10th when sources are muchscarcer and less clear.
For instance Count Hugo's appear in various sources in 900, 914, 939,955, 960, 967, 971, 976 & 994 and 2 charters that can only be assigned tothe period 968-92. The numbering of these Hugo's depends on how manydifferent individuals you think you can identify from these sources.
RFC could have just made a mistake, as we all can.
It seems clear from indications in the Acts of the Cts of Maine (ed
Robert Latouche, 1910), that we are dealing with at least 2 differentHugo's after 955. A more difficult question is: when did Hugo II succeedHugo I? We know that Ct Hugo son of widow Rothaus (= Rotilde dau of CB)was alive in 900 (Werner KdG, IV, 426-8). A Hugo son of Roger signscharters of Hugh the Great for St.Martin de Tours 929 & 931: he isassumed to be the same as the Count Hugo of 900. This is acceptable asHugo would have been very young in 900 (Rotilde was born 870/7), and mayhave been count in name only: a count Gauslin appears 905-14, who
may have been count of Maine in this period. Roger is thus assumed to bethe husband of Rothaus/Rotilde, and the same as the count Rodgar, theenemy of the Bp of Le Mans in 897, who excommunicated him, and we aretold Rodgar died soon after.
So you can see that the ES may be wrong in assigning Hugo I 900-14, andHugo II 931-76.
Incidentally this Rodgar is sometimes seen as the count Rodgar,
nepos of another Count Hugo, who is mentioned by Abbo de St.Germain-des-Pres in his Poem on the Siege of Paris by the Vikings. This Hugo waskilled fighting William the Pious in c.892. Sometimes he is referred toas Count of Bourges and as the ancestor of the cts of Maine: this is whythere exists an alternate theory - the 'Bourges descent' we better callit. Some French historians, even good ones, still adhere to it, eg M.Burin his
la formation de Champagne etc).
Another Hugo Ct of Maine appears as the ally of Alan II at the battle ofTrans in 939. Werner thinks he was Hugo I and died sometime before 955.
Hugo II appears in 955 up to 976: he had died by 992. Hugo II is assumedto be the son of Hugo I: I don't think any source tells us for certain -the Acts are not much help: they seem to omit Hugo I/II altogether andsay that the first Ct of Maine was Hugo son of David (!) father ofHerbert. As you will see the Cts of Maine in the 10th century are notablefor their longevity: it is possible that due to the lack of sources,historians (eg Werner) may have conflated 2 separate individuals.
However many Hughs were Counts of Maine, can anyone supply the identityof any of their wives? Stuart shows none for any of his three Hughs.
I don't think any source mentions them, though I suspect that Hugo IIprobably married an Angevin, perhaps a dau of Fulk II, as he had a sonFulk who appears 967-92."
